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Oscar
June 14th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Hey all,

So I thought it could be a good idea to just briefly mention what's going on with DQ and the world of Oscar latley! I'm free from university until September and I got myself a short job to pay rent meanwhile. If you wanna help on that you know where the donate button is :crazy:

DQ should have a few updates in a not too far away future. We're planning to extend the articles to include user written articles, which have been approved by a moderator (Like in the forum right now). Difference is that these articles will go into the articles section, as seen in the main navigation menu. Some sort of featurebox on the frontpage to get a list of the latest articles will probably also be implemented. How about that?

The secret project is still set to be released within this month! It's going to get tight to get it done on time, but it's still the plan. Ofcourse Flash is crashing on me every 2nd minute which makes the animating process just horrible. I'm thinking of switching animation software for any new projects in the future. Flash simply isn't optimal enough to make modern 2D animations, and to be honest it's quite sad to experience this on my end. I've working with it since 2001 you know.

That's about what I had in mind for today.
- Oscar Johansson

Kreekakon
June 14th, 2010, 04:08 PM
The secret project is still set to be released within this month! It's going to get tight to get it done on time, but it's still the plan.
SSWWEEEEETTTT!!! :D

Ofcourse Flash is crashing on me every 2nd minute which makes the animating process just horrible. I'm thinking of switching animation software for any new projects in the future. Flash simply isn't optimal enough to make modern 2D animations, and to be honest it's quite sad to experience this on my end. I've working with it since 2001 you know.

Hmmm...got any idea whatever you might switch to if you've got the chance?

<3 3D :3

Thunder
June 14th, 2010, 04:11 PM
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/XSI

Ahem.

Ecfor
June 14th, 2010, 04:14 PM
Ofcourse Flash is crashing on me every 2nd minute which makes the animating process just horrible. I'm thinking of switching animation software for any new projects in the future. Flash simply isn't optimal enough to make modern 2D animations.Does that apply to Castle? D:

Netrosis
June 14th, 2010, 04:52 PM
Ofcourse Flash is crashing on me every 2nd minute which makes the animating process just horrible. I'm thinking of switching animation software for any new projects in the future. Flash simply isn't optimal enough to make modern 2D animations, and to be honest it's quite sad to experience this on my end. I've working with it since 2001 you know.

These days, it makes more sense to "animate" in Flash, and compile movies as videos.

Otherwise:
http://www.toonboom.com/products/animate/?WT.mc_id=e_homepage_pdt_ANI
Toon Boom Animate.

Shadowtime23
June 14th, 2010, 04:56 PM
I didn't really get the idea of the article box, but I think I'll find out once it's done.
About flash... I don't use it, but still, here's an idea... You said you work with around 100 layers in a scene? Maybe that is causing flash to crash? And maybe you could make the scenes a little shorter and somehow glue them together once they're done?
Again, I don't know if it might help.
Anyway, nice hearing from you again :)

By the way, you might want to take a look at the hot-old-dead tread system. There are so many treads that are "hot new treads" though people haven't posted there for 2 months or so. Example? Quarantine.

Rimmy
June 14th, 2010, 05:17 PM
I don't really get the article box either. Also there's no need to rush things, if you can't finish this month then you can't finish this month, that's all there is to it.

username
June 14th, 2010, 06:24 PM
Well, look at that, an update. Sweet. :)
Good to hear 'bout the project, I was startin' to wonder about it.
Again, take your time with it. *excitement*
Sorry to hear about flash, though. Hopefully everything will eventually work out.
And I can't wait to see about this "artilcle" thing. Sounds in interesting. :)

Dash
June 14th, 2010, 08:07 PM
I didn't really get the idea of the article box, but I think I'll find out once it's done.
About flash... I don't use it, but still, here's an idea... You said you work with around 100 layers in a scene? Maybe that is causing flash to crash? And maybe you could make the scenes a little shorter and somehow glue them together once they're done?
Again, I don't know if it might help.


Not possibole, Krinkels is used ot work with flash 8, and he can go over 300 layers without his program gets crashed.
Toon boom is a yes, but ffffucking expensive. I hope you found out something good.

Netrosis
June 14th, 2010, 11:57 PM
Not possibole, Krinkels is used ot work with flash 8, and he can go over 300 layers without his program gets crashed.
Toon boom is a yes, but ffffucking expensive. I hope you found out something good.

Yeah, number of layers has little to do with it, it's essentially just another 'movie clip' except they're named and the layers tell Flash what order to render them in.

Obviously translucent stuff over more translucent stuff will lag the crap out of Flash, but it was designed to work on optimised web stuff. The only reason flash took off as much as it did was because it could deliver good, quick easy entertainment for little bandwidth. Once broadband took off with bandwidth flying everywhere, Youtube sprung up and has become viable. Yay.

I'm not saying you can't make awesome stuff in flash, but if you want to move into the professional spectrum of animation, then for 2D, Toon Boom is the industry standard. Coming from flash you have to unlearn all the tools you're used to, but that's like changing your keyboard layout to dvorak or something. It still does the same stuff, just more efficiently but it's up to you to learn your way around to be efficient.

But yeah, Toon Boom rocks for exporting to video. Flash is a fricken nightmare.
Once you move to video, you then have a whole spectrum of programs available, you don't just limit yourself to vector graphics and optimised 3D renders that need to be compressed to fit in flash efficiently.

You can render that model in a nice high resolution, and then have the video compression downgrade the quality for you. Working with higher quality graphics is always more awesome.

Plus Adobe After Effects, n' stuff.

Edit:
How could I forget, Toon Boom has a fucking camera! No more stupid vCam hacks in Flash hell yeah!

Toon Boom Studio (Hobbyist Leve) - USD$299
Toon Boom Animate (Pro Level) - USD$499

You get some awesome extra stuff for that $200.

Once you start using Bones & the Lip Sync, you'll wonder why the hell Flash is still so bad for animation.

Also guys, Free TRIAL on the Toon Boom website, check it out!
I sound like a Toon Boom Salesman, heh.

max the vampire
June 15th, 2010, 08:03 AM
you rock oscar!!!:-3

Scythe Cat
June 15th, 2010, 01:40 PM
9 years of animating...... Wow Oscar, you really deserve a huge break! :thumbsup:

Sirrin Nacht
June 15th, 2010, 06:56 PM
Good to know the secret project is still on track. Too bad flash is glitching on you.

ArtoriusVonKrieg
June 16th, 2010, 02:53 PM
Thanks for the update... I'm looking forward to the "Secret Project"...

...I'm not telling you!
June 17th, 2010, 05:24 PM
Leaving flash D:!
Well Oscar, I must say I'm surprised, but all the same if you've met the limits of flashes usefulness...
Any ideas on what you'll switch to for animating?

Bloody Shadow
June 20th, 2010, 04:45 AM
yay!!! can't wait to see it =D.....sorry about the Flash thing...but could it be a virus or something?...any way keep it up man! =]

Oscar
June 20th, 2010, 09:14 AM
Hmmm...got any idea whatever you might switch to if you've got the chance?

I'm interested to try out Toonboom Animate. Seems like the most modern software to work with at the moment.


Does that apply to Castle? D:
Hmn. Hard to say. Stick figure animation is probably kind of tied to Flash because it's Flash lines that you tween etc. I have no idea if that's possible to do in Toonboom. Castle will probably always be Flash though.


I dunno. Fosters Home For Imaginary Friends is modern and that was made in flash.
Well, Flash isn't useless. It could be my way of animating giving issues. Still you have the 16 000 frame limit in Flash though, unless they removed that in CS5. That's like 11 minutes of animation at 24 fps...


I didn't really get the idea of the article box

What I meant was that it's just a box on the frontpage like the "latest forum posts" box. Like that but displaying the latest articles.


Not possibole, Krinkels is used ot work with flash 8, and he can go over 300 layers without his program gets crashed.
Toon boom is a yes, but ffffucking expensive. I hope you found out something good.
I hope so too. Net mentioned it could be of all the 3D imports I've done and I think that's true. This music video is like 4 minutes or something but is still heavier than Castle Repercussions because of all the 3D imports. It leaves kind of rough vectors etc, that's probably the main reason.

...I'm not telling you!
June 20th, 2010, 11:19 AM
...just something I thought I'd put out there. Rezuth's history of flash article either needs a fix, or Rezuth is very disorienting when it comes to writing article: It's only showing one word for every line.
http://www.deletionquality.net/articles/view/history_of_flash

BanHammor
June 20th, 2010, 11:42 AM
Stop using IE, INTY

Oscar
June 20th, 2010, 11:48 AM
...just something I thought I'd put out there. Rezuth's history of flash article either needs a fix, or Rezuth is very disorienting when it comes to writing article: It's only showing one word for every line.
http://www.deletionquality.net/articles/view/history_of_flash
Seems like if you're using IE 6.0.

...I'm not telling you!
June 20th, 2010, 11:48 AM
So, it's just a problem that DQ has with IE 6 specificaly? Would it fix it, if I update my IE, or does it not work with IE all together?

BanHammor
June 20th, 2010, 11:59 AM
IE6 is a bane to Internet. IE7 is slightly better, but not recommended either. IE8, Firefox or Opera of last versions work a lot better with web standards.

...I'm not telling you!
June 20th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Right, I'll see if I can get it fixed tomorrow. I was actually interested in reading Rezuth's article, but I couldn't control the scrolling down too well :P. I'll wait untill tomorrow then.

darkbeing
June 20th, 2010, 03:31 PM
Dude, start using Mozilla firefox, it's waaaaay better... And it's your IE, it has to be out of date, cause I go on dq using the latest version and it works fine...

Peter Satera
June 25th, 2010, 12:47 PM
Hey Oscar, you wont be able to get the same effects from Toon Boom when doing stick animation. Ive used it for about 4 years now and its superb, but for traditional animation, you wont be able to get the exact same look with the tecqnigues you use in flash.

My suggestion is to stay with Flash, but dont work the same way you are working now, right now you are doing it all in one FLA file, it's dangerous and takes ages to render. Also Flash is a pile of poop for video editing. My suggestion is work the same way a studio would work. Continue using flash, but create your animations shot per shot basis.

So have a shot list for your animation.
Scene_01_Shot_01_Intro-Text
Scene_01_Shot_02_Establishing-Shot-For-Boomer

Then each FLA would correspond with each shot. You would then export this as an uncompressed video at high resolution. Then edit shot per shot in Adobe Premier, if on a Mac, Final Cut Pro. You get the chance then to edit sound perfectly and not scrappily like flash does it. The only problem with this is, your final export of the movie will be bitmap, meaning you wont be able to upload it to newgrounds due to filesize. However, many site admins are realising this and have decided to incorporate youtube inbedding into their submitting. Such as SFDT, where you can now submit a youtube file instead of an swf and like many forums, which now have the /youtube tags.

But you have a loyal fanbase, and im sure they would follow you where ever you upload to or link from. There's only the one con for using this technique, and it's the filesize at the end, when you export a compressed mp4 version from premier however when you consider the pro's they out weigh them overwhelmingly. Such as, you are able to use any source creation from any program, such as photoshop, painter, 3d, or anything like that because you are no longer constrained in file size. You can add layers upon layers of effects until your heart is content, and not worry what flash compression will do to it, not only that, people with older PC's still can get that flash_cache lag. You dont get that in youtube, because its bitmap'd based.

Instead of thinking 'I use flash' dont, think about program integration, thats where you really open up possibilties. I work sort of similar to the suggestion above, however I have a middle step. I export any Flash work into an image sequence, then use After Effects to composit. This allows me to tweak it shot by shot basis, not only that, you can "Tween" bitmapped images super slow and not have it do that vector flash wiggle. It can handle elements that flash cant, such as I have new rain that I made in Flash, because it's vector, it just couldnt handle it. It couldnt handle 100's of rain drops going at once, (and this was just the background rain), by exporting it as a sequence, importing it to aftereffects then ive bitmapped it. I now have 6 Layers of rain differing from very far rain to very close rain, to give the impression of a body of rain with characters being able to be placed between layers. It's just an example though of what you can open up in your animation when you ditch vector exporting.

..and before anyone says it, yes, i know, you could export the sequence as a 32PNG and then reimport it to flash for fast bitmap caching, bitmap chace the movieclip. But then you are back to the same problem you started with, your flash duration constraints, and your bitmaping the information...so you are making the filesize grow.

P.S. I havent spoke to you in ages. Hope you are keeping well! Enjoy your summer Oscar.

Khorne47
June 26th, 2010, 07:12 AM
...Longest noob post ever...
Anyway the end of this month is near so it should be out soon. Hopefully.

Netrosis
June 26th, 2010, 07:35 AM
...Longest noob post ever...

What do you mean by that?
Peter is not a noob at all, and if you consider those with low post counts as 'noob' then that's an extremely shallow perspective.

Wadling
June 26th, 2010, 07:51 AM
...Longest noob post ever...

The guy who created the Rival series = Noob?

BanHammor
June 26th, 2010, 08:03 AM
Khorne, it is the longest newbie post ever!

ide
June 26th, 2010, 11:13 AM
What do you mean by that?

I'm pretty sure he meant this:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/5387/nimetnb.png

Netrosis
June 26th, 2010, 11:17 AM
alright, fixt.

Khorne47
June 26th, 2010, 11:52 AM
Yea I meant what Ide said not his actual status as a person...Sorry to cause offense. Man somethings been up with me reccently. Can't spell, not funny, saying stupid things, tired all the time...Hmmm.

Peter Satera
June 26th, 2010, 12:53 PM
Rofl. Love the new tag Netrosis! ;) Thanks!

Dont worry about the n00b thing. It gave me a good laugh! Quite nice to be honest, makes me feel less...ancient.
;)

Oscar
June 27th, 2010, 07:53 AM
Hey Pete, awesome to see you around here! :)



Hey Oscar, you wont be able to get the same effects from Toon Boom when doing stick animation. Ive used it for about 4 years now and its superb, but for traditional animation, you wont be able to get the exact same look with the tecqnigues you use in flash.

Well, that's exactly what I suspected. This means Castle will still be made in Flash, at least mainly. You have some good tips there. What I would miss from doing this shot per shot thing though is the lack of a consistency when working in Flash. Sometimes you would prefer to have the previous 10 shots and the soundtrack for timing. Of course you can still do that in Premiere/Final cut, but it's still an export and import away.

Also, last time I was exporting to video from Flash it wouldn't play the many movieclips and also skipped the vCam in the final video, which is pretty much a catastrophe. I've used some specialized software like swf2Avi which records every frame and then exports in any given format. Ironically that software wasn't very stable either :)



However, many site admins are realising this and have decided to incorporate youtube inbedding into their submitting. Such as SFDT, where you can now submit a youtube file instead of an swf and like many forums, which now have the /youtube tags.
Yeah, it's a good new thinking from their end. There are a few cases already where the movies have been in video format put in an swf, like Charlie the Unicorn 3: http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/490280. Of course Tom had to upper TypeQueen's uploading file size limit and the screen was tiny.



It couldnt handle 100's of rain drops going at once, (and this was just the background rain)
Exactly, been in the same situation where I had to drop the effect and make something less awesome. It's quite logical really, all those calculations are just too much to handle for the average computer today. But still extremely weird since modern video games exists >_>.



P.S. I havent spoke to you in ages. Hope you are keeping well! Enjoy your summer Oscar.
Yarr! Good to see you around mate. Take care!

Peter Satera
June 27th, 2010, 08:54 PM
Hey Pete, awesome to see you around here! :)

Well, that's exactly what I suspected. This means Castle will still be made in Flash, at least mainly. You have some good tips there. What I would miss from doing this shot per shot thing though is the lack of a consistency when working in Flash. Sometimes you would prefer to have the previous 10 shots and the soundtrack for timing. Of course you can still do that in Premiere/Final cut, but it's still an export and import away.

Yeah, I can understand exactly what you mean. The way you would work around it is that you storyboard your shots for consistency, then listening(while noting) to the time of the music and then giving yourself durations per shot. I had to do that for the final part in R4, its time consuming but worth it. Then you edit to the frame.


Also, last time I was exporting to video from Flash it wouldn't play the many movieclips and also skipped the vCam in the final video, which is pretty much a catastrophe. I've used some specialized software like swf2Avi which records every frame and then exports in any given format. Ironically that software wasn't very stable either :)

Yeah. swf2avi has it's problems definetly, its better at exporting still image sequences than movies. And yeah Vcam is a big problem too.

There is a way around all this. And actually, this is where your software integration comes into it. What you can do is export the shot you're working on (SWF'S) which need a virtual camera from Flash into ToonBoomStudio. ToonBoom wont recognise any of the flash filters you add though, so i imagine they would be disabled. Then use the virtual camera in ToonBoom to get the correct shots. Your VCam in toonboom will have depth perception depending on the virtual distance you give your layers. Giving you better perspective than flash's Vcam. After that you would export the work Layer for layer (by hiding the ones you dont want) via png32/tiff32/tga32 sequences. Import the lot to aftereffects. Then add the filters you would want to use in flash. It's alot of work, but the shots work alot better than Vcam as you get depth perception, smooth image tweens with bitmaps (because toon boom can do it unlike flash) and add as many effects until your heart is content. Then re-export for premier.

If you wanted to do it more sloppy, You could also just export the swf clip from flash and use camtasia to capture perfect raw uncompressed footage then save that. I didn't have the Rival1,2,3 FLA's so thats how i recorded it all highdef. And it works pretty well due to camtasia's fast screen capture. You can be specfifc to the pixel in capturing, so your ratio/resolution can still be maintained.



But still extremely weird since modern video games exists >_>. Yeah, its pretty different though due to the vector saving and export of an clipping plane when it comes to 3D, as the camera viewport simply captures a 3D image and flattens it.

I've always got ways of working round things like this due to the huge number of problems ive experienced with working with many programs. But once you get used to it, you become very good at problem solving and then utilize the best of your tools, when you need 'em.

Xiox
July 3rd, 2010, 05:58 AM
Your a little late with the animation, but we are all patient people. So take your time and make it awesome, just like all your media that you make XD

Oscar
July 4th, 2010, 08:22 AM
Yeah I realized yesterday it's already July :P

Wadling
July 4th, 2010, 10:00 AM
Clearly Oscar has betrayed us all! REPENT!

Killing_Time
July 4th, 2010, 10:15 AM
Yeah I realized yesterday it's already July :P

*looks up from computer, confused*

So this is what summer looks like.

Rimmy
July 4th, 2010, 10:51 AM
Yeah I realized yesterday it's already July :P

I can't believe nobody noticed that lol

Dilly89
July 4th, 2010, 02:14 PM
Well, that seems somewhat sad, though, giving up flash, oh well. . . I mean to me if that were to happen, then I don't know what I would do for my animating hobbies lol.

Ah, what am I saying, I sounded like a drama king for a yanko second there, anyway, if you are looking for some new stuff to use and work with to help make more animated movies (including the much anticipated Castle IV) maybe you should try extending your sights to the next dimension of animating, 3D!!! (queue trumpet blast)

I have something that I was recommended when I went into Rising Sun Pictures for work expierience (part of year 10) that I think you'll like (Rising Sun Pictures is a major animation firm, currently doing some big movies including Harry Potter : The Deathly Hallows [Yes, I got very super duper extremely lucky to gain access, they had give me a passkey and get me to sign a non-disclosure agreement form, how tight is that! {No, I can't say what they are doing in there, hence, non-disclose form]}).

Back to the point, it's called: Houdini. Used by the most professional simulators in the buisness of film, and yet it can be downloaded for free, no trial (although, it's an apprentice version, but it is like 99% like the really thing they showed me anyway [Difference comes in the final export of any movie]).

Although also it is only a simulator but you could still use if for any number of effects you wanted to create eg, water, explosions, shatter effects, etc. You could in my opinion use flash and houdini together (this will reduce the need to get pissed of at flash for stuffing up as often, plus houdini effects are kickass!). Just an idea, you could try. . .although (yes here I go again) like I said, coming down to exporting the final product, a watermark will appear in the frame, but have now fear, here's yet another idea.

Find Webinaria download it (free!) and then use it to screen capture a piece of the exported animation, playback screen, avoiding the watermark and, hey presto (yes I did see the WALLE short with the rabbit and magician)
you have just officially beaten the manufacturers of Houdini (Muhahaha [Oh f*&k, Wadling's going to kill me if he saw me support 3D]).

Just an idea I thought off, if you were thinking, I thought of on the spot (or seat) just because it was 11:30pm, I just saw Doctor Who (thus felt like acting like with a bit of a Doctor Who ish attitude towards this message), I had not much to do, apart from falling on the keyboard flat and I don't kno an tyghyt6dffes666dfd66666666666ggggggggggggggggggggg gg. . .

Tobu
July 7th, 2010, 05:31 PM
Yeah I realized yesterday it's already July :P

Damn u b1tch! xD

@Dilly89
What the fuck are you talking about!?

Rimmy
July 7th, 2010, 06:16 PM
wow Dilly, have you slept the last week? Your post got me confused

Dilly89
July 8th, 2010, 10:42 AM
Sorry last post I was just talking about Houdini, software Oscar could use (also Webinaria). I just tried to incorp alot of thoughts into the post as possible, before as you saw, I dozed off. :cool2::out::cornut:

Anyways, today, for me, I'm pumped, not tired, given that I just finished (AT LAST) the last bit of filming for Castle Invasion PtB (can see PtA on DQ [Damn, please don't say this is spam {Ha, that rhymed}]). Not tired, I hope to finish this epic part, it's as of yet the biggest so far. Not tired, I hope my braces don't hurt so much!!! Not tired, why am I saying not tired where now I am from filming. Not tired (oh s*&t I'm lying and NOT not tired:crazy:) errrm6yt7thgty6gg7yu6hhhhhhhhhhhhg dsffffffffffffffffffffeeeeefffffeee333333443333333 333. . .

Rimmy
July 8th, 2010, 12:23 PM
could you stop smashing your keyboard at the end of every post?
Also you should try to calm down a little while posting.
and it's nice to see that you're going good with your movies.

Scuds
July 9th, 2010, 10:45 PM
Is the project not yet completed or is Oscar just being lazy and not putting it on the site?

...I'm not telling you!
July 9th, 2010, 11:00 PM
I think he's a bit late on release date. I think he mentioned it in this thread to be honest Scuds.
EDIT: It's on this exact page too.
Troll EDIT: I think he's being lazy, personally.

Wadling
July 9th, 2010, 11:23 PM
I think he's just being lazy, personally.

Netrosis
July 9th, 2010, 11:50 PM
heh, Oscar's just really really busy at the moment.

Ask us grown ups, once you become responsible, life gets busy.

jman1234
July 9th, 2010, 11:59 PM
Ask us grown ups, once you become responsible, life gets busy.

Crap.... that just crushed my view of life after high school.

Oscar
July 10th, 2010, 09:03 AM
Yeah I'm just being lazy at the moment. It's not like I have any stuff to do really :crazy:

Wadling
July 10th, 2010, 10:21 AM
See, he admits it!

Dilly89
July 11th, 2010, 07:06 AM
Perhaps, you could give me a hand with my movie I'm making, Castle Invasion then, seeing as perhaps you have some spare time????:think:

Khorne47
July 11th, 2010, 07:24 AM
Dilly...Don't make him even more distracted!

kingmiami
July 13th, 2010, 05:29 AM
Can't wait to see the animation Oscar.

Peter Satera
July 19th, 2010, 12:15 AM
heh, Oscar's just really really busy at the moment.

Ask us grown ups, once you become responsible, life gets busy.

Yes, life does have a way of handing you very time consuming activities which are dependant on your own survival.

IN a sentence. Its a bi**h.

Polo
July 19th, 2010, 12:17 AM
Bi**h?.. Uh, Birch? Birth? Man, I cannot fathom a clue to what you must mean.

Dilly89
July 20th, 2010, 09:48 AM
I can guess as to how confused you must be, hence the way your dumb face for your profile looks lol (just joking).

Scuds
July 22nd, 2010, 02:14 AM
Not sure what day it is in Sweden but here in Canada it's July 21st. Still waiting and still looking forward to it. :)

freundfire
July 30th, 2010, 10:21 AM
Then enjoy yourself! I donīt know too when it is in that country, but anyway enjoy everyone his day!

Xiox
July 30th, 2010, 11:59 AM
It's a month late :P

Vracer
July 31st, 2010, 06:09 AM
I dunno. Fosters Home For Imaginary Friends is modern and that was made in Flash.
Aren't there some other shows made with Flash nowadays?